Conversations with Andrew Wong

Dec 13, 2023 9 min read

Law

By Tanya Nagar and Tiffany Tay

Andrew Wong is a Product Manager, Innovation & KM Solutions at Dentons Rodyk. He is responsible for driving innovative efforts within the firm, with the aim of delivering value to legal service delivery as part of the firm’s wider digital and cultural transformation. A tech enthusiast and former lawyer, Andrew is passionate about the intersection of both domains as well as innovation in general. He is also an editor at LawTech.Asia, an online publication driving thought leadership on law and technology in Asia, and sat on the first steering committee of the Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation and Technology Association (ALITA) when it was founded in 2019.

What does a normal day for you look like?

My daily routine is dynamic and shaped by current business priorities. A significant portion involves engaging with stakeholders and understanding their needs and challenges. My team currently functions like in-house consultants as we primarily focus on internal product management, but we are progressing towards serving both internal and external stakeholders.

Tasks range from defining problem statements and prioritising features for specific use cases, to handling change management and creating communication documents.

As a manager, a typical day may also involve supervising my direct reports and engaging senior management. We are not a big team with our own in-house development, so we do partner with some external providers as well. We also spend time working with cross functional teams, such as the compliance or IT teams, to make sure projects are going on track. For instance, we could be working together to build the next iteration of our in-house tools.

Besides these, I try to set aside some time for general learning and keeping up-to-date with industry news and trends.

How did you enter the field of legal innovation?

After getting my law degree in 2014, I first went the traditional route of getting called to the bar and practised for a few years.

Looking back, a confluence of factors led me to consider the transition and eventually take the leap of faith – the burgeoning rise of technology within the legal industry, coupled with a personal interest in technology and how it could shape the future of the industry. The first thing is the burgeoning rise of technology in the industry. Back then, legal innovation and technology was considered relatively nascent. Having worked in outfits of different sizes, I have seen first-hand how technology can make a significant difference in the way we work. It also made me think in a macro sense about how the industry will look like in the future.

This piqued my curiosity and naturally I was also concerned about how the future of the industry might look like. Delving into various forms of content, such as Richard Susskind’s seminal work in “Tomorrow’s Lawyers”, provided perspective on the changing shape of legal practice and how it will continue to change in the next decade. It is quite a seminal book for people in this domain, and for me, it crystallised what a career in legal innovation could be like.

In the backdrop, I also took notice of how the key industry stakeholders made strategic moves towards the headwinds that the legal industry faced. The Singapore Judiciary, Ministry of Law and Singapore Academy of Law had taken firm strides with strategic initiatives in setting up of committees and taskforces to harness technology to benefit the industry. These eventually crystallised into key documents such as the Legal Technology Vision 2017, which presented the Academy’s vision for the adoption of legal technology and the incubation of a legal tech scene in Singapore, and set out a developmental road map for the digital transformation of the legal sector over a five-year horizon. These are the things that led me to eventually take the leap.

Since then, several other key documents have been pushed out, such as the Legal Industry Technology and Innovation Roadmap (TIR) in 2020 and the Legal Industry Digital Plan in 2023.

Given your time as a product manager, have you seen any evolution in the industry and in which direction do you see it expanding in the future?

Before answering this, I‘d like to make a couple of points:

I think it is interesting to observe that there are different types of product managers in various companies and industries, and each of them may think of product management in different ways or envision different scopes.
For us, we moulded and formed the scope and team structure along the way. When I first joined, product management was not the way the team was structured, but along the way we iterated and eventually built it that way. Essentially, we wanted a lean team focused on driving the success of our products and initiatives.

I will break down the question into two parts. In terms of legal technology and innovation, I think Singapore has made considerable progress in the past five years or so. We will continue to see more of what is called allied legal professionals. These include roles like legal technologists, legal project manager, legal operations, and a lot of different names and disciplines that will all go towards enhancing legal service delivery. This will be an area of continued growth. I also think that clients would be more open to implementing all these things as we go along. We have already witnessed it, but it will become increasingly common for them internally and for us as well when we continue to work with firms. There is a lot to explore in that aspect.

In the realm of product management, I believe this will continue to be shaped by technology. Product managers will have to keep a finger on the pulse for technological advancements and emerging technologies. More importantly, they will have to be able to identify opportunities and attendant risks in leveraging such technologies. This means that they must first understand, at least on a basic level, what those technologies mean for individuals and businesses. In addition, product managers must continue to be user-centric more than ever. Ultimately, we are responsible for representing the users and ensuring the success of our products – that always starts with understanding user needs and making sure they are addressed.

With the benefit of hindsight, what are some challenges you face at work?

Generally, product managers face the challenge of influencing outcomes without necessarily having formal authority, particularly in cross-functional teams. Working with various teams, including engineers, UX designers, and sales and marketing, require navigating diverse perspectives. The collaborative effort to align everyone towards common goals is fulfilling in itself. Ultimately, success is measured by the positive impact on addressing user needs.

What is one thing you enjoyed doing in your workplace in the past year?

We worked on this new service offering called legal design, where we packaged traditional legal services with innovative approaches. This was for a client launching a new e-commerce service. Our scope ranged from the conventional legal review of terms and conditions to a complete rethink and redesign of the client’s contracting process using design thinking concepts and UX design principles. The aim was to make key terms transparent and accessible to the client’s customers.

The process involved understanding the client’s customers through a consultative approach, ideating potential solutions, and presenting prototypes for feedback. The iterative process, from understanding user needs to the final product, showcased the power of empathy and design thinking in legal services.

How has Covid-19 affected your industry and what precautions are you considering taking in the future?

The legal industry has witnessed accelerated trends due to Covid-19, such as the adoption of online dispute resolution and the normalisation of remote and hybrid working. At Dentons Rodyk, we’ve embraced hybrid work as a permanent feature, allowing employees to work remotely for up to 50% of the time. Our firm revamped the office space specifically to align with our flexible work arrangement. We also eliminated assigned workspaces and implemented hot-desking which allows us to pare down on unnecessary real estate and create spaces that improve networking and collaboration. While preserving culture and cohesion is crucial, we are also focusing on incorporating digital communication alongside face-to-face engagement. Effective communication is paramount in my role as a change agent, and maintaining a balance between remote and in-person interactions is vital.

Has this always been your dream job since young? If not, what made you choose this job?

This job did not exist when I was young, as traditional roles like lawyers were more prominent. My journey involved constant iteration, starting with associated roles that evolved into my current position. I believe that continuous learning and adaptability are essential in the modern working environment. The creation of new jobs, including mine, reflects the dynamic nature of industries. While this specific role wasn’t a childhood dream, my interest and domain expertise led me to this unique intersection of law, technology, and innovation.

What motivates you in your job every day and how do you sustain that motivation?

Three main things motivate me. The first is about knowing that we make a positive impact. We are problem-solvers at the core and knowing that we can make a difference is fulfilling.

The second is about challenging the status quo. It is about not being satisfied with the way we are currently doing things; we are always looking for ways to do it better.

The last thing is innovation. I see innovation as not just about doing something new or in a different way, but more about doing something in a better way that adds value and brings positive impact. As an innovation function in a law firm, we add value to legal service delivery, which ultimately adds value to the firm’s clients.

Could you tell us more about what you do outside of work? How do you achieve work-life balance?

Outside of work, I am passionate about basketball, photography, and live music.

Achieving work-life balance in a modern working environment involves work-life integration, especially with hybrid working. Flexibility is crucial, allowing autonomy in managing tasks and family responsibilities without rigid 9-5 schedules. At the same time, with communication tools nowadays, you might have to maintain communication channels with global counterparts or people with different time zones. So, this flexibility goes both ways. We do have flexibility, but it is more like a purpose-driven concept.

To elaborate, it is about being deliberate on what you want to accomplish and having your eye on the bigger picture. For instance, if your current task contributes to the overall goal, it would not be a cause of regret in the long term, even if there might be a short-term imbalance. I do qualify that you should not work to the extreme or let work irreversibly affect your health.

What kind of books do you like to read?

In my professional capacity, I read a broad range of books covering innovation, product management or user experience design. Outside of work, my interests span technology-related topics, personal development, and even graphic novels.

Would you say that having relevant work experience is more important than having academic qualifications in terms of obtaining a job?

Depending on how you define academic qualifications, for some vocations it is mandatory that you attain some kind of formal qualifications first e.g., doctors, lawyers, pilots.

Generally, relevant work experience is important in providing practical insights, whilst academic qualifications are helpful in structuring knowledge. In some sense, it hinges on individual learning preferences – some thrive in formal academic structures, while others excel through hands-on experience. Whether it be learning through academic qualifications or work experience, having the right attitude and ability to learn quickly is always important.

Reflecting on the present landscape, industries like big tech have seen relevant academic qualifications become available only very recently. In some cases, the relevant academic qualifications might not be available until later stages. Given the rapid pace of change, skill acquisition is not necessarily tied to academic institutions.

It is therefore essential to embrace a skills-based growth mindset. Academic qualifications are representative of learning within a formal structure, whereas skills-based thinking goes beyond that.

Success, to me, is an ongoing journey where lessons from failures are invaluable.

I would say open-mindedness and curiosity are important qualities in general. Being willing to explore uncharted territories is crucial, considering the innovative nature of our work.

Another key factor is encapsulated in the sayings: “perfection is the enemy of progress”, or “done is better than perfect”. Given the fast-paced nature of our work, these principles remind us to avoid analysis paralysis and instead embrace continuous iteration.

Success is often achieved by moving swiftly, learning from mistakes, and adapting to change. The ability to balance a quest for excellence with the practical reality of achieving results is fundamental in a dynamic field.

What is one piece of advice you would give to people who aspire to join the same line of work as you?

Having a positive learning attitude, being curious and open minded about new ideas, and at the same time being humble and knowing that you might not know everything.

For students, dipping your toes into relevant sectors is always useful. Explore relevant skill sets like design thinking, UX design and data analytics. Also, remember to hone your communication skills; it will be helpful no matter where you are or what job you do. The ability to convey ideas effectively is especially critical in roles like mine, where communication is integral to driving innovation and change.